平心靜氣論"託付"

平心靜氣論"託付"

#0, by
vancouverjoe,
25 March 2010 04:17 PM

跟一些仍然留在神的教會的弟兄姊妹相交，有的表示他們不離開神的教會是因為他們相信"託付"仍然在神的教會那裡。
多說一句，他們的"託付"，意是神單單"託付"他們，其他的宗派沒份。所以神的教會不讚成弟兄姊妹離開神的教會到其他宗派聚會。
我在想，他們這麼深信是因為.....
1. 神的教會領導這樣說，所以就這樣信, 還是
2. 他們自己看見神的作為．得到神的說話 ?
這是兩回事。
自己由初信一開始就聽到神"託付"他們的言論，但從不相信。
我所信的，是神"託付"在全地信主的人。
....................................................................................................................................
其實大家應該放眼看看其他弟兄姊妹，其他宗派在主裡作工的果效再說。
世界真的很大。









guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#1, by
guest, 25 March 2010 04:42 PM
Yes, I also agree ... 神是託付"在[全地/全世界]所有信主的人..DON'T believe what
called神單"託付"神的教會....this想法 is very poison...harmful..immodest...and naive~~






guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#2, by
guest, 25 March 2010 04:51 PM
神單"託付"神的教會？迷信現象！





guest
quote reply /
Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#3, by
guest, 25 March 2010 05:34 PM
馬哥哥already point out that Fish lie about the 教會異像 at 沙田， he
only had an 感動，but he over blow it as a special 神單"託付"神的教會。Very sad that a lot
of B/S still don't see this. No matter what, whether you are in TCOG or switch
to other place for meeting, we should all 努力完成教會。使徒 Paul and I belongs to the
same Church. Even though I am having my meeting at TCOG right now. All every B/S
in this world before me and in the future belongs to ONE CHURCH. Don't let TCOG
fool you.





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#4, by
guest, 25 March 2010 05:37 PM
Totally, AGREE!
在我們主耶穌基督來世後傳道之前，的而且確能歸順神而成為先知的，係非常非常的少數。而主耶穌的表哥施洗約翰，是該少數其中的一位。
但當主耶穌傳道兼繼後成為基督，祂已交託祂的門徒（因信主耶穌基督十架救贖罪人而稱義的）個個都係服事神的祭司–傳揚祂救贖的道、領人歸主。大家同一個身體，同一個託付。
何來我嘅『託付』大過你嘅『託付』？又，何來佢嘅『託付』大過你同我嘅『託付』呢？
佢這個自編自導自演自誇自大自吹自僻嘅『託付』，經過四五十年多以來所爆煲（暴露）的事實，已被人識穿，原來佢係嚟破壞主耶穌基督在地上的教會，撕裂主的身體。佢嘅特別『託付』–一統教會（事實佢一早另起爐灶及甚至指控其他教會為魔鬼的），其實佢是撒但的無間道嗎？佢好有法術將撒但無間道的道理，化身成為佢所謂人無我有的、唯我獨尊的特特特特特特『託』嗎？咁一班跟隨佢嘅羣眾，當然要孭起條數（鄺張計劃）落力認捐，緊係要『付』出錢、出力、出時間等等
...... 就算盲目附從嗎？





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#5, by
guest, 25 March 2010 07:18 PM
During the early 90's it was "easier" to believe (of course
it's not true) God only "託付" TCOG, but now...um...I even feel embarrassed when I
bring non believers to TCOG! I don't know how to explain why the b/s jumped and
danced




vancouverjoe
member - regular

Posts:66
Joined:03 March 2010

quote reply /
Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#6, by
vancouverjoe,
25 March 2010 08:52 PM

要知道聖經已在公元一世紀完成，我認為神要向全教會說的，都已記在聖經裡。
我所想說的是，為甚麼到現在神要特別與神的教會"同在"及單單"託付"他們呢
?
當然神有衪自己作事的方式，我也不會不智到完全否定衪在現今世代會親自向某某顯現與說話的可能。
但就神的教會而言，按時間和客觀的情況來說，帶領的生活見證，及至給大家看到的作事方式並言論而言，我看不到神有甚麼特別的同在與祝福。
相反，在弟兄姊妹中我見到很多眼淚．不滿和憤怒。
時間真的在減少了，我相信這樣的光景並不是神想看到的，更不會是甚麼復興之先的情形。
......................................................................................................
我以前說過(可能不是在這裡說)，要留在神的教會也好，要離開也好，都是為主。我這個觀點仍是一樣。
但我所想的是，弟兄姊妹應知道現有的問題，再作決定。
要留下的，是為主，但要有改變現有問題的決心。
我決定離開，因為我發現我的一家在別處有更多學習及事奉的機會。但我仍會用各樣途徑，希望主能把神的教會帶回正路。
教會----永遠只得一個。
...........................................................
是的，我知道有很多人不滿自己在這裡的言論，但我心想神會白，我對弟兄姊妹的心有主知道，我有一天也得親自向主交賬。
我不想再聽到有留下來的弟兄姊妹在抱怨
"你們走的人為甚麼靜悄悄的離開，甚麼也不告訴我，令我白白浪費了...年。"
他們也是我寶貴的弟兄姊妹。
我們所看見所聽見的，不能不說。 徒4:20

............................................................







guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#7, by
guest, 25 March 2010 09:21 PM
咁呢一班跟隨佢嘅羣眾，點解咁容易跟佢、完全信哂佢所講的呢？
★請問大家有否發現，呢間窮（自食其力，十足三自形式）組織，起頭建基在草根低下階層的學生及工友身上嗎？
◆而佢哋最初所搶到的學生，係嚟自粵語殘片時代昔日的「天水圍」難民區嗎？又，嗰Ｄ學生在該些地區返學，並非第一級學校嗎？
◎所以，呢班學生水平差Ｄ嗎？自我管理的能力差Ｄ嗎？有自卑及缺乏自信嗎？容易信人嗎？容易盲從附和嗎？容易被大個嗰ｄ收埋做近身紅衛兵嗎？容易被煽動嗎？為爭一啖氣，立志叻過高材生，好恨／好幸找緊機會可以威足永世嗎？成日諗：『跟住嘅大佬佢好傳奇好威水，我一樣可以做得咁傳奇咁威水』嗎？唯我獨尊，自我膨脹，聽唔落外間的忠言（逆耳）嗎？
■呢一班跟隨佢嘅羣眾，有否向神承認自大的罪嗎？有否向神承認貶低踐踏別人抬高自己的罪嗎？有否向神承認傷害外間的罪嗎？
●若無！會否因為受到撒但魔鬼邪靈的控制嗎？Jump & Dance，有用親近神嗎？定係為撒但Jump & Dance嗎？





teriyaki
member - novice

Posts:28
Joined:09 March 2010

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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#8, by
teriyaki, 25 March
2010 09:53 PM

在我來看，"託付" 係指去使萬民作主的門徒。以前我想過以下既問題


1) 主回來時，教會人數要添滿， tcog 現在全球人數一萬都無，而且走下坡，如果主既"託付" 單單係
tcog，教會人數就要用很多時間先至會添滿。（用好多時間）
2) 余弟兄曾講過，他是會經歷 「被提」，代表 "教會完成"
得會好快。當觀看實際情況，如果主的託付只在tcog，但tcog人數甚少，教會什樣能夠在余弟兄生前完成呢？（只有好少時間）
1 和 2 是不是互相矛盾呢？如果單靠 tcog
在短期內去使教會人數添滿，是無可能的；咁神會不會也託付了其他教會呢？如果神真係也託付了其他教會，而tcog
就攻擊他們，咁就係攻擊主的身體，咁tcog是不是得罪神呢？
tcog 有咁多唔行聖經既問題，神的詫付仍單單在 tcog ？ 相反，我希望tcog 在神的詫付中有份。











guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#9, by
guest, 25 March 2010 10:06 PM
我為這託付奮鬥廿多年,一直相信tcog的話,老實講以前確似有復興景象,但現在走了出來,覺得自己真的很傻,tcog
,請不要欺騙弟妹





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#10,
by guest, 26 March 2010 03:20 AM
簡單一句,神的託付絕對不會託付一間自大的教會





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#11,
by guest, 26 March 2010 05:22 AM
The following is my guess: (It may be wrong) When brohter Fish
was young, God did deliver him some visions about revival of Church. Brother
Fish and some more B/Ss follow God's vision and start to establish TCOG. More
B/Ss join the stream and devoted themselves to establishing the Church and
preaching the gospel, etc. Due to God's blessing, many non-believers were
converted, in particular secondary school students and tertiary educated
students, etc. TCOG's brothers and sisters did also preached gospel to other
countries. Though there are many weakness in TCOG, I think no one could deny the
above history. TCOG experienced revival (or little revivial) in the past.
Honestly, from 199X to now, due to some reasons, or maybe according to some
arguments posted by others (i.e. sin) TCOG's spiritual situation keep declining.
As such, we may need to divid TCOG's history into different stages so that we
could have a clearer pitcure about the "Vision". In short, the Vision were true
before and our current situation are due to our disobedient or incapability to
catch up. Last but not least, Thanks Lord who guided me in the past and I
believe He will guide me and you in future, for SURE.





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#12,
by guest, 26 March 2010 05:34 AM
Quoted from other article in
internet....<<聚會的模式或對原罪的看法等，那是對聖經的不同解釋與實踐，我們應當彼此包容接納，如同今天教會與教會之間也不會因彼此對水禮還是洗禮）或聖餐（一個餅一個杯還是多個小餅多個小杯)
等形式的分歧,雖然割蓆分坐，卻是互相尊重， 切磋探討彼此對聖經的看法。 >>





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#13,
by guest, 26 March 2010 05:54 AM
"Vision"..I believe God will deliver to every Christian..if
they willing to receive...not only TCOG...Bible never said that and GOD won't
偏心to anyone.. any races and any churches....if they still often emphasize and
look down the other church that..what is the different between other cults?






guest
quote reply /
Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#14,
by guest, 26 March 2010 08:07 AM
甚麼vision是tcog的獨有..仲係度高舉fish.佢既vision已經比人証明係假的..






guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#15,
by guest, 26 March 2010 09:19 AM
No. It is obvious that God could assign different job item to
different christian. This is not due to partiality. For example, there are
different spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit. Paul has different duty than
Peter. To be conscious, under the big vision, there can be different small
visions (or missions) for different christian (groups).





guest
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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#16,
by guest, 26 March 2010 10:32 AM
TCOG有不少跟聖經背道而馳的Visions及Slogans，「恩賜不同」和「假傳 神的旨意」是有分別的！





hkman77
member - rookie

Posts:10
Joined:09 March 2010

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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#17,
by hkman77, 26 March
2010 04:06 PM

TCOG所講託付，只不過用來欺騙B/S技倆！
所為既託付，到現在有幾多兌現呢？
什麼最後一棒，又咪係吹作之人既口術囉！
聽得多都噹佢吹牛算囉！
不過又真係幾多傻仔、傻女B/S信佢禾！





dordor

member - rookie

Posts:1
Joined:15 March 2010

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Re: 平心靜氣論"託付"

#18,
by dordor, 26 March
2010 04:48 PM

到很多地方開展教會,
之後在維持上都有困難,各地經常都嚷著人手不夠.......在全地建造合神心意的家真的有難度。

我在國內上班,週末週日有時也留在國內事奉,
很少返香港。發現要有穩定的長期團隊人手其實不是易事。事奉,
真的不可單單出於一時的感動......

我聽過有些人相交分享好似好有託付咁,之後就很少見佢地來了......

有些人,講就天下無敵,
做就有心無力. 還是真誠一點, 量力而為吧